tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post113879500899790475..comments2023-05-22T04:15:04.606-04:00Comments on Old Doxoblogy: 'Non-Miraculous' GiftsJeremy Weaverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02552780649310262425noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post-1139257956008735762006-02-06T15:32:00.000-05:002006-02-06T15:32:00.000-05:00| "Why could Paul or Peter heal someone | whenever...| "Why could Paul or Peter heal someone <BR/>| whenever they intended to and we can not?" <BR/>| <BR/>| You are basing this statement on two <BR/>| assumptions: <BR/>| 1) The Apostles could heal whenever they <BR/>| wanted to, and <BR/><BR/>You can name examples of them intending to heal after Pentacost when they failed to do so.<BR/><BR/>| 2) We cannot heal anyone EVER. <BR/><BR/>I think you are overstating my position in order to argue against it – in both cases. You are grouping gifts together as if the spiritual gift of leadership is the same as the miraculous gift of tongues. They are not the same things.<BR/><BR/>| They are both wrong assumptions. <BR/>| I'll tell you why later. <BR/><BR/>I'm dying to read why.<BR/><BR/>| Did you catch the next post?<BR/><BR/>I'm going there next. I had a feeling that you were going to try "all gifts are gifts, so why ignore some when you affirm any of them?"FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post-1138895980452267612006-02-02T10:59:00.000-05:002006-02-02T10:59:00.000-05:00"Why could Paul or Peter heal someone whenever the..."Why could Paul or Peter heal someone whenever they intended to and we can not?"<BR/><BR/>You are basing this statement on two assumptions:<BR/>1) The Apostles could heal whenever they wanted to, and<BR/>2) We cannot heal anyone EVER.<BR/><BR/>They are both wrong assumptions.<BR/>I'll tell you why later.<BR/><BR/>Did you catch the next post?Jeremy Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02552780649310262425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post-1138891980786691852006-02-02T09:53:00.000-05:002006-02-02T09:53:00.000-05:00I don't think this is about follow-through: I thin...I don't think this is about follow-through: I think this is about the topic I originally presented.<BR/><BR/>My view is that the Apostles were gifted in ways ways which we are not gifted. For example, why can they write Scripture and we can not? Why could Paul or Peter heal someone <I>whenever they intended to</I> and we can not?<BR/><BR/>I have no doubt that the Spirit has an on-going place in the church today by calling and quickening and gifting men and women for service in the church. I just don't think those gifts include the kind of gifts the Apostles (or prophets) demonstrated <I>becuase we are not producing Scripture.</I> We are only delivering or providing Scripture.<BR/><BR/>The entire controversy, as it began at Phil's blog, was about whether the <I>miraculous</I> signs were still in play in the church -- it was not about whether there were any gifts at all in play in the churh.<BR/><BR/>However, if you want to find a way to conflate the miraculous with the "normal" gifts <I>using the testimony of Scripture,</I> bring it.FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post-1138818340606486082006-02-01T13:25:00.000-05:002006-02-01T13:25:00.000-05:00You don't want to follow all the way through, Cent...You don't want to follow all the way through, Cent? I don't know how to talk about the gifts if I'm not going to include all of them.<BR/>This post is still foundational to my thinking.<BR/>I realize that I haven't got to the so-called 'miraculous' gifts yet. But the reason for not doing so is this: I need to fix Jonathan's 'Total Cessationism' while I'm at it.:-)Jeremy Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02552780649310262425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post-1138807152213328032006-02-01T10:19:00.000-05:002006-02-01T10:19:00.000-05:00It's a short fight, Doxo. You have changed the to...It's a short fight, Doxo. You have changed the topic from my original complaint from "signs and wonders to perform in order to validate the Gospel proclamation" to any non-miraculous non-wonderous gifting.<BR/><BR/>I don't deny that there are many members but one body. Cessationism is not about whether a pastor is gifted to lead or a deacon is gifted to serve. Cessationism is about whether miraculous gifts -- like speaking in tongues, or the intentional healing of the sick, or prophecy -- are active and present in the church today.<BR/><BR/>That's what the debate it about. C'mon over and join in. :)FX Turkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798420127955373559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13376296.post-1138802770403165372006-02-01T09:06:00.000-05:002006-02-01T09:06:00.000-05:00You sound Edwardsian.You sound Edwardsian.Jonathan Moorheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03687367307942260277noreply@blogger.com