Old Doxoblogy

Friday, July 28, 2006

Homework Assignment

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to read the quote by Kim Riddlebarger in the Faithful Sampler in the left sidebar.
Then go to this post and read the last comment, which was made sometime last night.

Now, answer these three questions for me (you don't have to actually respond here unless you want to):

1. How many examples of an unstated presupposition do you see? (Hint: There's a BIG one in the first line of the second paragraph.)

2. Do you think any of what he said makes sense outside of his (and possibly your) presuppositions?

3. How could you restate this argument to make it coherent to someone who doesn't hold your presuppositions?


bluecollar said...

In that last comment I see some thinking similar to L.S. Chafer. My problem with the Holy Spirit operating in a diminished role is that I do not see how Jesus' definition of a Christian, found in John 7:38-39-"38Whoever believes in me, as[a] the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified"

There simply is no definition in scripture of a christian of the type believed by the pre-tribers. We are saved by the washing of regeneration, and renewing by the Holy Spirit. That is true of all who come to Christ. There is no hint that there is a time when it shall be otherwise.

The New Covenant spoken of in Hebrews 8, quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the description of a Christian for all time..." 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. "

As I read Eph.2:10-22 I see that we are now at the very apex of redemptive history. Why would the Lord go backwards and deminish the work of the Spirit as He seems to in the Chafer view.

I've gone on too long now to address that election thing.

bluecollar said...

The indwelling of the Spirit is the core of Christianity. God indwelling the believer through the Spirit - Christ and the Father making Their abode in the saint - that is Christianity.

bluecollar said...

Jew and Gentile (the church) are NOW the priests of God. We are now a spiritual house, offering up spiritual sacrifices to God. We are NOw a chosen generation, a holy nation, His own special people.

The Chafer rapture scene does not acknowledge the vital workings of the Spirit on a person's life who comes to Christ.

bluecollar said...

I like George Eldon Ladd's view of the post tribulation rapture. He apeals to Matthew 25:1-13 to suggest that the rapture is a U-Turn, the saints going up to meet Him in the air, receive their glorified bodies, then return with Him to the earth.

If the church must not go through the great tribulation why is it okay for the trib. saints to go through it?

If the great trib. is vital so that Israel comes to the Lord, why are there Jews coming to Christ today?

bluecollar said...

Prior to 1827 is there any record of the teaching of a pre-trib rapture in church history?

bluecollar said...

My own views of pre-mil have been shaken of late-say the last 3 years or so. I am now looking seriously at post-mil and a-mil. A-mill demands far fewer resurections and allows us to enter the eternal state directly from the present - and I believe to be the apex of redemptive history - age. Riddlebarger's points on the 2 age approach looks good to me. However, I think the arguments on how to look at Rev.20 seem weak. I must also look at post-mill.

My own position may well be years in the making. I just don't know. I do know that pre-mill doesn't satisfy me either, especially that pre-trib version. I do not see a distinction between the church and Israel. Too many resurections, and no acknowledgement of our being at the apex of redemptive history now.

Anonymous said...

Jeremy you already know my views regarding eschatology, but really the last comment? I'm having fun enough with you and the "Moral Law" I don't have enough years left in my life to deal with the "last comment" besides that the font's too small for my bifocals to pick up. ROFL.

BugBlaster said...

I think Peter D. Nelson speaks for me on this as well.